850: Controlled Disclosure, UFO Evidence, & Taking Personal Responsibility with Filmmaker Michael Mazzola

[00:00:00] Welcome to Multidimensional. I’m your host, Christina Rice, AKA Christina, the channel, and this is the place where we explore what it really means to be multidimensional. Hi, friends, and welcome back to the podcast. If you love all things UFO disclosure, you are going to love today’s episode. I have my friend Michael Mazzola on the podcast.

He is an award-winning documentary filmmaker, and he is the co-founder of SPARK, which is a streaming platform that blends personal transformation with pop culture. So many amazing shows and creators featured on there that go deep into consciousness. Highly recommend. Michael has been working in the UFO disclosure consciousness, peeling back the truth of history space for over a decade now, and he has created some of the [00:01:00] documentaries that have really changed the game when it comes to greater awareness around disclosure, including Unacknowledged, which in 2017 was the top documentary, um, on iTunes at the time about this topic, as well as Close Encounters of the Fifth Kind.

Highly recommend checking these out if you haven’t already. In this episode, we talk about his spiritual journey and how he got to where he is today. I think it’s so interesting to hear the behind-the-scenes of those who are putting these amazing pieces of content out there, like making a whole documentary on this.

Um, he has not only made many movies related to disclosure and consciousness but, you know, working on SPARK and other big projects. He’s touching so many of the leaders in this space and is a leader himself in this space, so we went deep into his journey of how he got to where he was, what his experience was working on [00:02:00] these different films, and I feel like there are so many powerful tidbits in here about your own awakening and our own relationship with personal responsibility, which was one of the main things I wanted him to share about on this episode because we had gone to lunch a few weeks back and just had such a beautiful conversation, and I was like, “You have to come on the podcast and talk about this.”

So his work is incredible, and he is just the most loving, humble being in the world. So you’re gonna love his energy. Uh, I think you’re gonna get a lot out of this. I was so locked in, and I was getting so many downloads while he was talking, so I know you will as well. So enjoy this conversation with Michael Mazzola.

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and fucked up, but thinking that I had it all figured out. Yeah. And am I allowed to swear on this show? Yeah, 100%. Okay, cool. So should have asked up front. Um- We’re explicit here … so I was making, uh… Well, first of all, I started off in my youth as a hardcore Catholic- Mm-hmm … which really traumatized me because I was like, “What do you mean that there’s this surveillance camera in the sky that knows my thoughts and knows when I masturbate and knows-

that I’m gay and is gonna send me to hell?” Mm. And so I was extremely traumatized by this- Yeah … ’cause I really bought in and, and, and believed it the way it was being taught. And so I ran into the arms of the atheists and the skeptics, and I said, “Thank God there’s no God,” you know? Mm-hmm. “Thank God this is all BS and it’s not real.

I don’t wanna [00:07:00] live in a universe where any of this stuff is real.” I was so happy to be in a cold, dead, impersonal universe. Um, and, like, I had friends who would say, “I wanna believe in God. I wanna believe in spirituality. I wanna believe in UFOs. I wanna believe in whatever, but there’s just not enough evidence.”

These were my fellow skeptics. And I would say, “Why do you wanna believe in that? I’m glad it’s not real. I don’t wanna live in a world where this stuff is real.” And You know, I would argue with people. I loved proving that I was the smartest person in the room, and, “Oh, you have a deeply held belief? I’m gonna shit all over it.”

Mm. I was just unpleasant. And then through the years, in my late teens and early 20s, and, uh, having arguments with people who were much smarter than me or more informed than me, I realized that I was wrong. So it wasn’t like this big awakening thing. It was like death by a thousand cuts. Mm. [00:08:00] And I had to accept that I, um, was wrong about these things, and then I had to ask myself, “Well, why is it that I not only didn’t believe, but I didn’t want to believe?”

And the answer that came to me immediately was, well, if this stuff is real, I have to take extreme responsibility for my own happiness, for my vibration I’m putting out in the world, for my thoughts, for the reality that I’m creating. If there’s really a UFO cover-up, I can’t just sit on that. I can’t keep that to myself.

So I- You definitely c- Yeah … definitely couldn’t. Yeah. So I… So I’m like, “Okay, I’m gonna start making films.” Yeah. So I get into making documentaries, and I didn’t think anyone would see them, and then they blew up, and- Yeah … the first one I made was Unacknowledged, which was made, like, under, like, war conditions, and I was, like, sleeping on couches and cutting this thing.

And it was… And then I, like, I thought no one would see it, and then it just blew up, and I had a career- Mm … and I became the UFO guy. Mm. So as I got deeper into this [00:09:00] stuff, I still wasn’t having direct spiritual experiences, but I had lots of opinions about spirituality. Mm-hmm. And so I thought that I was this awakened person.

I thought awakening was, oh, I had all the wrong opinions about God and consciousness and aliens and whatever, and now I have all the right opinions about these things. You know, it wasn’t until many years later that I realized that I had just gone from one side of the asshole coin to the other side of the asshole coin.

Mm-hmm. And, and, like, the first thing that goes o- at least for me, when I started having direct spiritual experiences, were all of my opinions about everything- Yeah … but especially spirituality. Yeah. And so that’s when awakening really started for me, was, was when I actually ha- had those direct experiences.

Okay, there’s so much juice in what you said. Oh. I appreciate you being so open a- and sharing it. You know, I think that… And we talked about this [00:10:00] a little bit at, at lunch, kind of this you go from one side of the asshole coin to the other- Yeah … to use your language. I feel like that’s so important to talk about and to acknowledge.

Mm-hmm. Uh, because it’s so rampant, you know? And I think, I think a lot of us do that in many areas of our lives, right? Mm-hmm. I, I am curious about- Um, if we go back to, okay, so you said you ran into the arms of the atheists because that felt more comfortable, right? Yeah. A- and how old were you around that time?

I was, I was, like, 15 years old. Okay. And I was right a- it was right before my confirmation. Okay. So in, in… It’s like a, it’s like a bar mitzvah in Catholicism. I, I’m, I grew up Catholic. Okay, cool. Yeah, I got confirmed. Yeah. So I went through the motions of my confirmation- It got approved … but my heart wasn’t in it.

Yeah. And, and, you know, now, you know, fast-forward, I believe in the divinity of Christ. Mm-hmm. But I believe in the divinity of everybody. Yeah. You know? And I, I have a different relationship with, um, with Christianity, and I just wish that it had been taught [00:11:00] to me- Yeah … differently. Totally. I… The guest I had before you, we were talking all about this, too.

So it’s, it’s- Oh, far out … it’s in the field today. Yeah. It’s in this chair, I guess. Yeah. We’re talking about it. But, so I’m curious about, then you said that you had a lot of discussions with other people over the years that then made you realize, like- Maybe there’s, there is something going on. And it was death by a thousand cuts, so to speak.

But, like, what were some of the key things that people brought to you, or I don’t know if it was experiential or, um, just really good points people made that stuck out to you, that made you change your mind and open your mind? Because I think that’s a really rare quality in today’s world. People pick an opinion, and they will do anything to stick to it, and I’m always curious about when people genuinely do change their minds about such a deeply held belief.

Like, what are the things that actually trigger that? Great question. You know, I was literally a member of Michael Shermer’s Skeptics [00:12:00] Society. So… And, and the motto is- Yeah … uh, “Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.” Mm-hmm. And, you know, their talking points are like, “Well, yeah, it’d be nice if aliens were real.

It’d be nice if there was a god or whatever, but there’s just no evidence for this.” So I, I took that on face value. Mm-hmm. I’m like, “Oh, these are smart people. Richard Dawkins, he’s a smart person, you know?” Um, and so I didn’t suspect that all of that evidence actually is there. Mm-hmm. And, uh, it was really Dean Radin’s work.

He’s the chief scientist at the Institute of Noetic Sciences, and he wrote several books. One was called Conscious Universe. I think another one was called Entangled. Um, there was a, a series of them, and it was just making the case for psychic phenomena- Mm-hmm … and that, um, and that consciousness isn’t just this chemical reaction in our brains, but can actually do stuff in the world.

And that was… O- Of everything that I was resisting, that was the thing that really, um, made me the most [00:13:00] uncomfortable. Mm-hmm. Because I, I grew up, um, so miserable for most of my life, um, for a number of reasons, and so the idea that I was the architect of my own misery- Mm-hmm … you know, was really scary to me.

And so when, when I got into, when I kind of moved over to the other side and started making films that was advocating for these kinds of ideas, like, “Hey, aliens are visiting us. Hey, your consciousness does stuff in the world,” I’ve always been very sensitive to the fact that it’s not about the evidence for these…

It’s about, it’s about, like, the responsibility that we’re asking people to take- Mm-hmm … and, like, the role that we’re asking people to, to step into to really part- participate in reality in a different way. I think it’s extremely overwhelming and scary, uh, for those of us who’ve just been conditioned to, to live in a different way.

I used [00:14:00] to have the same conversation over and over with skeptics of the UFO thing. Mm-hmm. And I would say, “Okay, hypothetically, hypothetically, Christina, what would convince you? What if hypothetically-” Um, the sixth man to walk on the moon came forward and said, “Aliens are real. We have crashed UFOs that have been retrieved.

We have dead bodies. The government’s covering it up.” What if, hypothetically, a bunch of aerospace, CIA, and military, you know, uh, officials held a press conference in Washington, DC and admitted to participating in the coverup? What if, again, hypothetically, you know, the CIA released thousands of pages of documents on their own website outlining the whole thing?

Would that convince you? And the skeptic would always say, “Well, yeah, sure. If that happened, of course that would convince me.” Mm-hmm. And I said, “Great, because all of that has happened. Let me show you.” And then they say, “No, no, no. That doesn’t prove anything.” Right? And that was the conversation over and over.

So I’m like, [00:15:00] “Okay, it’s not about the evidence. If it was about the evidence, we’d be lis- we’d be living in a different reality.” Yeah. You know? So that’s when I was like, “Okay, I need to stop trying to persuade people with another document or another piece of evidence,” and it’s more about, um, showing people that you can step into this new paradigm in a way that makes your life better- Mm-hmm

not in a way that makes your life worse. Mm. Okay, everything you said I feel like is so profound. Oh, really? Yeah. I, no, I do because it is a really big distinction of the issue isn’t about the evidence for people. You’re right. It, it’s actually about the implications of that, of what that would mean about how we relate to our own reality and taking responsibility, and that’s a much bigger question.

And you know, I, I- I feel like I’m less often in these conversations where people are, like, kind of battling ’cause I’m just kind of in a different side- We’re in a bubble. Yeah. Like- I, I’m not in those conversations anymore … yeah, yeah. You know? But I, it come up against them, [00:16:00] like, here and there, and so I feel like a fish out of water.

I’m like, I don’t usually have this conversation, and I don’t even really even know how to respond because I’m not usually around people that are, like, looking for evidence of anything. You know what I mean? I’m in my bubble. So then people are like… I have a lot of those similar conversations where I’m like, but all this is public knowl- like, this, the information is out there.

We have evidence, and a lot of people just don’t know that. They just don’t- They don’t know … they don’t know. And I, I don’t know. Like, what do you think about that? Because I think there’s so, there is so much out there. I’m like, you guys, it’s accessible. Like, that’s how I learned about it. I, you know? But people just aren’t accessing it.

So I used to think it was my job to tell everybody. Yeah. You know, a lot of people when they encounter, especially, like, the UFO stuff, because it’s so shocking. Mm-hmm. You know? It’s not just that there are aliens. Uh, uh, it’s that there’s, like, all of this technology that’s been hidden from us, and we could be living in this Star Trek civilization, and, you know, all the stuff I put in my movies.

And, like, people encounter this, and they’re like, “Oh my God, we’re living in a Truman [00:17:00] Show,” and they run out, and they, they think they have to tell everyone. Mm-hmm. That’s what I did. But I told everyone. Like, I told hundreds of millions of people through- Yeah … these films. But y- I don’t, I don’t feel the need to do that anymore.

Now that just, to me, that feels like I’m interfering with, with people. Yeah. So I don’t try to convince folks anymore. Instead, I just want to make content, films, shows that I find enjoyable and nourishing- Mm-hmm … and inspiring for me. Yeah. And then I know that other people will think it’s cool- Yeah … ’cause if I think it’s cool, and if I’m having fun, you know?

Um, I don’t think it’s about hitting people over the head anymore. Maybe that was necessary 10 years ago- Yeah … but I think the culture has changed enough. Yeah. It’s interesting because- Well, I, we, we talked about Disclosure Day, like, at lunch. Like, I, that’s part of the dilemma in it, right? Like, you have, if you have this information, what do you do?

Uh, I’m curious your, your thoughts on that. Well, Disclosure Day, I [00:18:00] loved it. Yeah. You know? I did too. It was, it was a perfect movie, you know, but, uh, it got, it got so much right- Yeah, yeah … about this stuff. Um, but you know, the most, um… One day someone will make the most accurate, um, disclosure film, which is when, you know, the ETs show up and no one gives a shit- Yeah

because that’s what happened. Yeah. You know? Like, no one cares. Yeah. And that’s the thing that I never calculated. Mm-hmm. Like, you know, my, my buddy Daniel teaches a, um, a filmmaking class at USC. Uh, he’s a, he’s a well-known producer here, and he’s really into the UFO stuff. Mm-hmm. And he’s a, he’s a contactee.

And he, he asked his class, “So, um, so how many of you, um, are, you know, watching the congressional hearings on UFOs?” Not a single hand went up. Didn’t even know about it. Yeah. Like, the people don’t even give a shit. Yeah. I know we’re- we have so much information. Like, before the problem was everybody was watching the same things on TV, so you’re just programming everybody with what’s on TV, and that’s what everybody thinks is going on.

Now we have so many [00:19:00] platforms and so much information that, like, nobody is seeing the same things, and you’re just in your bubble, and there’s so much out there that you’re just completely unaware of. So it’s, in some ways e- kind of sometimes harder to get information to people. You know? It’s true. Yeah.

It’s true. This stuff is so saturated. Yeah. And also, you know, there are so many people who are kind of processing their trauma around these issues and processing their own, like, awakening experience. Mm-hmm. Like, they’re awakening in real time, and they’re pres- they’re doing it in public as influencers, and they’re presenting their sort of moment-by-moment realizations as fact to people.

Yeah, yeah. I’m watching this happen because now with the network that we’re, w- that we’ve created, you know, we’re partnering with creators. Mm-hmm. And so I’m out there looking for people to work with all the time, and so I’m getting a really good sense of, well, what’s out there. Yeah. And, and there’s, [00:20:00] like, like every form of human dysfunction just, like, magnified in the spiritual community.

Yeah. I’m just like, “Okay.” Yeah. “Well, now I have to sort through this and, and figure out what the hell I’m gonna do.” You know? It i- it is a lot to sort through, for sure. Well, I, I… Like, I wanna go back to, so if we talk about actually the real, one of the big real issues is taking the personal responsibility or, or, you know, how do you come to terms with the implications of that?

In your own journey, how, how did you? That’s a, that’s a really good question. Well, first it’s thinking that I’m taking responsibility when I’m really not, you know- Yeah … for years and years and years. Um, and then, you know, I, I, I don’t think that we are… And, and again, I could be wrong, and it’s just an opinion.

Yeah. And I’m not that committed to any of my opinions. Yeah. [00:21:00] But, like, I don’t think that I am alone literally creating everything that I’m experiencing. I think we’re, we’re co-creating it. Yeah. And that we have this sort of, these consensus realities that are kind of competing with each other. And, um, I think it, what it really looks like is being able to, uh, not accept things, but just not resist what’s happening, number one.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. It’s ha- you know, it, it’s hard for me to kind of put a definition on it ’cause it’s something I’m still, I’m still trying to figure out, and it’s something I struggle with every day. Like, I still get angry at other people. I still blame other people. I still get in fights, um, every day, you know?

So I’m not saying that I, I’m practicing it perfectly, but I try to come back [00:22:00] to what is it within me that I can shift? Mm-hmm. And I find that when I heal myself, that thing that’s bothering me in a situation with another person- Mm-hmm … will shift. Yeah. Because it’s all fractal and holographic. Yeah. So if I heal myself, I can, I can see that reflected back- Mm-hmm

to an extent. I don’t know how it all works- Yeah … you know? Um, ’cause then you have to have free will and, you know, how can I heal something on behalf of somebody else? Mm-hmm. So I, I don’t know how it all works, but I, I’ve just noticed that if I can come back to healing the way that I feel about a situation- Uh-huh

I can see that situation change. Yeah. I’m sorry. That was a very inarticulate- No … rambling way- No, it wasn’t … to get there. I totally, I totally get it. I’ll share my experience because- Please … I kind of had a s- like a similar… You know, I grew up Catholic, and I, I had a hard time with a lot of what I was taught.

Like similar, I’m like, I remember thinking, “Am I [00:23:00] really gonna go to hell if I don’t make my bed every day? I’m going to confession.” You know, I’m like in second grade. I’m like, “Oh my God, am I going to hell ’cause I didn’t, like, make my bed today?” I, like, had a really hard time with that. I mean, maybe. Maybe.

Yeah. But I also was channeling, you know, Yeshua. Like, I’m getting all this information like, “No, no, no, that’s not how it works,” right? So and I… That’s very confusing as a child, getting all this information. And then kind of in my, my personal journey as I got older, I, I started resenting spirituality, the idea of- Like, I was like, I, I struggled a lot.

I had a lot of, um, health issues and mental health issues, and with traumas in my life, I was like, I, I struggled with, I feel like I’m a good person, like I have a really good heart. I, I try my best to be… I’m not perfect, but I try my best to always lead with love and integrity, and like, so why has all this stuff happened to me, you know?

And I didn’t really know how to reckon with that, and then I went like, “Okay, maybe I just don’t believe in anything. I don’t know what’s going on.” [00:24:00] And for me, I think a lot of it came from my misunderstanding of what it meant to, like, manifest or to co-create, where I took it as, like, I’m personally responsible.

Like, I took it, when I first learned about attraction, as, oh, I have all these health issues, so, like, I chose that. Like, like, as if, like, I’m a bad person, so I attracted it. That’s how I was interpreting it when I was young, and then I was like, that’s not really what it is, right? And when I started to understand, like, um, I- my body created it because I was out of alignment with my truth, you know?

Like, it’s, it’s a different understanding of how the terrain gets set up for things to manifest in our lives. And when I started to realize a lot of this is, like, just getting my attention to guide me somewhere else, that’s where I started having a different relationship with taking personal responsibility, and it shifted into something where I’m like, this is actually really empowering because I can look at the reflections in my [00:25:00] life, and it’s very obvious now where I’m not feeling good.

And then what can I do to, you know, live more in my truth, deeper in love, and then that’s gonna start to change things versus, like, life is throwing these negative things at me ’cause I’m a bad person, was how I… When I was y- l- young, that’s how I took it. Does that make sense? Yeah. I went through a, I went through a similar- Yeah

evolution in my thinking about it and, you know, i- if, if someone’s attacking me, oh, I… How did, what did I do, you know- Yeah … to, to create this and deserve this on some level? You know, something that I’ve learned the, the hard way is that sometimes it’s, um, it’s like past life karma with that person. Mm-hmm.

You know? Sometimes it’s ancestral stuff. Mm-hmm. Like, you know, i- there’s a lot of different ingredients in the soup. Mm-hmm. You know? It’s very complex soup. Yeah, and not everything is, you know, oh, I have, I just have this negative belief that I need to clear- Yeah … you know? Um, something I’ve done, uh, with, uh, with my teacher who [00:26:00] has, who has helped me so much is we, we clear, like, oaths, swearings- Yeah

promises, contracts from past lives. And I’m like, you know, I’ll come in with an issue, and she’s like, she’ll just get the hit. She’s like, “Oh, yeah, no, we need to do some work around this- Mm-hmm … ’cause this is coming from some, some vow you made, you know, 10,000 years ago.” It’s one of the big, it’s one of the biggest things.

Yeah. The, the contracts and oaths. Like, it’s a life hack when you start to clear those. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Um- I am curious, so you start to becoming more, you know, open to these ideas again. But then, like, what’s the jump into, “I’m gonna make these documentaries”? Well- Like, like, what was that pipeline? Yeah. Well, I mean, I thought I was gonna be Alfred Hitchcock.

Uh-huh. Like, I wanted to be, like, a big Hollywood movie director. I went to, you know, a middle school film program that was really advanced a- at, at the time and a high school film program that was really spectacular. Mm-hmm. And then I went to, uh, to NYU, um, which was [00:27:00] a mixed experience, but- What do you mean?

Well, I, you know, I had a, um… I didn’t know until much later in my life that this extreme s- sensitivity that I had and this, this, these overwhelming thoughts and emotions that I had all the time was me reading what was in other people’s fields. I would feel it. I’m very kinesthetic. Mm-hmm. And I didn’t, you know, I didn’t even believe in that for half of my life.

And then when I believed in it, I didn’t realize that’s what I was doing ’cause I couldn’t… I only know my experience. I couldn’t compare it to someone else’s. Yeah. So I just thought that kind of everybody experienced this and that I just was weak and inadequate and that I, you know, I, I couldn’t handle this.

So I got diagnosed in- when I was, uh, 18 or 19 with depression and then bipolar and anxiety disorder. I was put on all these medications. Mm-hmm. The medications made me [00:28:00] super suicidal. Mm-hmm. And so my college years were really miserable because- Mm … I was, um, I was dealing with these, like, exploding gifts, but I wasn’t experiencing them as gifts.

I was experiencing them as, like, I’m going insane. Yeah. And then- Wow … um, and then I was heavily medicated, and those fucked me up worse than- Yeah … you know, what they were trying to treat, and it took me years to get off of all that stuff. Um, but, you know, nobody ever explained to me, like, oh, you’re, like, extreme empath, and you’re just processing other people’s trauma, and you feel the shit that’s in their fields.

And it’s like I thought I had social anxiety. Like, I had a hard time looking at people. Mm. But it’s be- it was because I could sense what was on them. Yeah. You know? Like, we all carry stuff around with us, whether it’s, you know, actual entities, but sometimes, like, you can just worry so much that that worry condenses into a golem that follows you [00:29:00] around.

Mm-hmm. It could be past life trauma. It could be beliefs. It could just be all ki- projections from other people. So we carry all this shit around, and I would just feel it- you know, as if it was mine. Mm-hmm. So I was on sensory overload my whole life. Mm-hmm. Um, and it wasn’t until recently that I r- knew what was going on, and then I could kind of like control it.

Mm. I could consent to it for the first time. Mm. How did you learn to consent to it? I think a lot of people can relate to what you’re saying. So I work with an amazing, amazing woman named Barbara Hepburn, who’s kind of under the radar. Mm-hmm. Uh, though apparently she is launching a website soon, so I am gonna plug her.

Okay, amazing. Um, and I, I met Barb, um, two and a half years ago because I met one of her s- longtime students of 30 years at the Conscious Life Expo, uh, in, uh, in LA. It’s this b- it’s this amazing, fun event that happens every year at the LAX Hilton, [00:30:00] and you’ve got like 20 to 25,000 people who will come in to this little hotel over the weekend to buy crystals and get psychic readings and see their favorite speakers.

H- have you been to it? No, I haven’t. I’ll get you… I’ll, I’ll, you know, we, you can come with me this year if you want. Okay. It’s every February. Yeah. It’s really fun. It’s really wild. It’s a total freak show. Uh-huh. Um, it’s always fun watching the… ‘Cause it’s right next to the airport. It’s always fun watching the pilots and the flight-

attendants walk in. They’re like, “What the fuck is…” Like, what’s going on? Yeah. Yeah. But, um, so I always go to, you know- Yeah … just to like see what’s out there, see my friends. Yeah. I don’t, I, I don’t actually expect to ex- experience like life-changing transformation- Mm-hmm … at this expo. Yeah. You know? And so I meet this psychic, uh, this psychic medium named Christopher LaPrath, um, who, uh, was giving readings at a booth.

And, um, he looks at me and he goes, “Oh-” “… you have this connection to Babaji.” And I’m [00:31:00] like, “Oh, you have my attention.” Yeah. Because Autobiography of a Yogi is my favorite book. Uh-huh. And then he’s like, “Here, you need to take this crystal.” He gives me this huge crystal. He’s like, “You’re, you’re gonna need this.”

And I’m like, “Okay, free crystal.” Yeah. And then he comes up to me later when I’m in line for Indian food, and he gives me another huge crystal, and he’s like, “You’re really gonna need this.” Mm-hmm. And I’m like, “Okay.” And so, like, 20 minutes later, I’m at lunch with my friend, and all of a sudden, I experience, like…

It was like this ecstatic high as if I was on drugs- Yeah … or psychedelics, but it was more pure and exquisite than anything I had ever experienced on psilocybin or LSD or anything. Wow. And I didn’t know what was happening to me, and I was like, “I- excuse me, I have to go.” And luckily, I had a hotel room, so I went, and I’s meditating.

I was just trying to ground myself. And then when I could finally [00:32:00] walk, I went down and I found Christopher, and I said, “What the fuck is this rock doing to me?” And he said, “It’s not the rock. It’s you.” And I’m like, “What the fuck does that mean?” And he, and he’s like, “Just here, t- take my card. Stay in touch with me.”

So then every day for the next few weeks, I would… In the morning, this high would come again. Mm-hmm. And it was like feeling the presence of God. Yeah. It was just, like, this feeling of, like, love and perfection, but then I’d get sick, and I would curl up in a ball on the floor like I was gonna puke. And then s- and then, like, at that moment, he would call me and he’d say, “You’re doing great.”

And then- I was like, “Christopher, I can’t go on like this anymore. I’m either, like, on the ceiling feeling like I’ve- I’m filling the whole universe- Mm-hmm … I’m so expanded and high, or I’m on the floor trying to not die.” Mm-hmm. And he’s like, “You need to come work with my teacher, Barbara.” Mm-hmm. And I’m like, “Sure, anything.

What- whatever,” you know? And he had told me that she, she works with some of the [00:33:00] most advanced and esteemed spiritual leaders in the world. They go to her for her to clear their energy field. So I, I said, “Sure, whatever, if she can help.” Mm-hmm. So I go to Arizona and, um, we- I, I basically, like, every time I’ve worked with her since then I have experienced miracles.

Mm-hmm. Like, uh, actual miracles. And she does this combination of energy clearing, which I’ve never met anyone as powerful as her, and she combines it with neuroscience. Mm-hmm. And, um, and she also has this very high frequency field that she- Yeah … that she generates in her home and her office where she works.

And so I, because my nervous system is so sensitive, I feel like I smoked a joint when I’m sitting on her couch- Yeah … because I’m feeling this energy field. I, I didn’t realize that not everyone would experience it that way. Mm-hmm. ‘Cause I didn’t realize how unique my nervous system was [00:34:00] until, until I was deep into the work with her.

But she helped me, after a couple years of work- Mm-hmm … she helped me, um, finally be able to kind of turn that, turn those apertures off- Yeah … so that I can actually consent to You know, feeling what’s in someone’s field. Mm-hmm. And, and a- also I didn’t realize this is why a lot of really dark people were attracted to me because I was unconsciously processing their shit for them.

Yeah. But they weren’t getting healed, and I wasn’t getting anything in return. Mm-hmm. It was just this horrible toxic thing. Mm-hmm. So… I think a l- a lot of people are in that cycle unintentionally, obviously. Yeah. You know? That’s amazing. I’m so glad you found her. She sounds incredible. Oh, me too. She’s amazing.

I’m excited for you to link us up. 100%. Yeah. Soon as we’re done, I’ll- Yeah … I’ll do a text and go. I, I absolutely- Yeah … love it. So you are having all of these things open up. Um, [00:35:00] and then how do, how do we get to we’re making documentaries about UFOs? Oh, yeah. So I mean, this was… So this was really, um, you know, 2016.

Yeah. I, I connected with Dr. Steven Greer. Mm-hmm. And, you know, there wasn’t a lot of info out there at the time. Yeah. It was, you know, it was him on YouTube, and it was the Disclosure Project. And- Why were you so interested in that specifically? Like, have you just always been inter- interested in that in your spiritual journey?

Or like… You know, it was, um… This was in the very early years of my spiritual journey. Okay. And what I loved about Greer’s work, and still love about it- Yeah … is that it’s very int- intellectual. Mm-hmm. It’s very logical. It’s based on science and evidence. And so you have on one side all of the whistleblowers talking about the UFO stuff, but then you have the science of consciousness stuff that he- Mm-hmm

that he blends with it. And so it was, you know… This is, again, like, you know, eight years before I’m gonna have any kind of direct [00:36:00] spiritual experience myself, so this is all just intellectual and abstract for me. Mm-hmm. So I really gravitated to someone who was really intelligent, you know. Yeah. Like, Greer’s a very smart guy.

Yeah. So we made Unacknowledged. I didn’t think it would be seen by more than, like, 5,000 people on Vimeo. Mm-hmm. And then it was, like, number one documentary of, of, of the year of 2017. Yeah. It was just… I was like, “Oh, do I have a career now? Oh, now I’m the alien guy?” ‘Cause I didn’t… That wasn’t my plan at all.

Yeah. So… And then we did CE5, and we did other stuff. Well, can we- Yeah … talk about… Like, I wanna know what it was like working on those projects. Like, what was your experience? I mean, it was amazing. We, I, I got to, um, you know, I got to have- firsthand interactions with people who are inside these programs.

Mm-hmm. Uh, we got to go out on these CE5 expeditions and, and see this stuff. And, um, I had, uh… I had also, [00:37:00] um, in 2013, I had co-founded a quantum physics R&D company with a guy named Adam Michael Curry, who is, uh, he’s a prodigy. He’s all grown up now. Mm-hmm. But he was doing, like, mind-matter interaction experiments in the- Whoa

Princeton Paralab. Uh-huh. And so, um, we were… We put him in Close Encounters of the Fifth Kind. We demonstrated some of his technology. He’s got this thing called the mind lamp, where you think of a color, it turns that color. Cool. It’s so cool. And then, of course, Greer tries to trick it, you know? And he thinks of sunset as a color.

Uh-huh. But then it w- it, like, actually turned that color. Wait, that’s amazing. And I’m like, “You fucking chose sunset?” Yeah. Like, what the fuck is that? And then, but it actually worked, and that’s in the movie. So- That is so cool. Yeah. Yeah, I’m curious, like, for you, when you were making those films, like, what are the pieces of…

the experiences or pieces of evidence that, like, stuck out the most to you? I mean- It, at the end of the day, it’s [00:38:00] the, the witness testimony- Mm-hmm … from The Disclosure Project- Mm-hmm … is the best stuff. And this was all 2001. This predated me getting involved- Yeah … by 15 years. Yeah. You know? Um, but you have Edgar Mitchell, the sixth man to walk on the moon, saying, “We have crashed spaceships.

We have recovered them. We have recovered ET bodies. The government is covering it up.” I’m like, you don’t get any more credible than that. Mm-hmm. You have, um, John Callahan, who was the h- the chief investigator for the FAA, who came forward and said, “We had a giant UFO following one of our planes, and the CIA tried to force me to cover it up.”

Mm. “But I saved the radar tapes. Here they are.” You know? Like, and it was just person after person. And now we have these congressional hearings, and I, I don’t wanna, you know, criticize anybody- Mm-hmm … but it’s like the witnesses and the information that Greer brought forward 25 [00:39:00] years ago is better than all the stuff that’s out there now.

Yeah. You know? But we are going through a controlled disclosure. Mm-hmm. Um, I- one of my best friends in the world is Daniel Sheehan, who’s a very famous civil rights attorney, who’s dedicated the rest of his life to this issue, and he worked on, you know, the Pentagon Papers case. He represented the tribes, uh, the Lakota tribes at Standing Rock.

He’s legendary. He u- he’s the one who uncovered Iran-Contra, and he was having meetings a few years ago with very senior Pentagon people, and they were saying, “We have to avoid catastrophic disclosure.” And I said, “What the fuck is that? Is that what I think it is?” And he’s like, “Yeah. Catastrophic disclosure, it’s not catastrophic for us.”

Mm-hmm. “It’s catastrophic for the people who have been keeping this a secret for 100 years, who have murdered people to keep this a secret- Mm-hmm … who have been, who have withheld technologies that would allow all of us to be living like immortal [00:40:00] billionaires while fixing climate change and eliminating pollution that tens of millions of people die from every year.”

These are crimes against humanity. These are the worst crimes against humanity that have ever been committed, you know? And And these, these people were saying, I won’t name who they are, but they were saying to Danny, like, “The elements of power must be preserved.” Right? Meaning they want to go through a controlled disclosure, and on the other side of it, we have the status quo.

Nothing fundamentally changes. Mm-hmm. And in my mind, like, fuck that. Yeah. You know? Like, we… If this doesn’t look like a Star Trek civilization on the other side of disclosure, we didn’t do it right. Yeah. You know? And, and so they, they did the famous Schumer amendment, the, the so-called disclosure bill in 2023, and it literally calls for the, quote, “controlled disclosure campaign plan,” and it says, “We’re gonna roll this out over several years step by step, [00:41:00] and, you know, and it’s gonna be this really careful thing.”

And, and so that’s what we’re currently living through. They are soft rolling this. They’re gonna do it drip by drip because… They, they say it’s because they don’t wanna traumatize people, but we already know people don’t care. Yeah. You know, no one gives a shit. So what it is is they’re doing it because they wanna make sure that on the other side of this, the power structure is intact.

Mm-hmm. And, and we have the same companies, the same government officials, the same institutions have survived that, and they don’t deserve to survive that- Yeah … because they’re the ones who have been profiting off of murder- Mm-hmm … you know, basically, uh, and poverty and starvation and pollution and, you know.

Um, for people who are not… who, who are hearing this out of context, I’ll just say, like, the reason, the main reason this has been kept secret was to protect the interests of the fossil fuel companies and the major corporations, [00:42:00] because when you have magical technology from outer space, these craft are not filling up with Exxon gasoline.

You know, you’re talking about energy and propulsion systems that would completely transform the way we live on this planet. Mm-hmm. Um, and free energy, you know, is not about just not having an electric bill. It’s literally 99% of the cost of anything is the energy it takes to pull raw materials out of the ground, ship them, process them.

Like, it’s all just energy. You bring the cost of energy to zero, you’re talking about endless abundance- Mm-hmm … for everybody. Um, so there’s, there’s a lot at stake. And, um, this used to really stress me out, and I used to think that this was my job to stop all of this, and I don’t relate to it that way at all.

Yeah. Now I’m just like, “Yes, this is all factually true- Mm-hmm … but we shouldn’t get upset about it. We should just go within, work on ourselves- Mm-hmm … raise our own [00:43:00] vibration, meditate, enjoy our lives. Mm-hmm. You know? ‘Cause, like, this stuff just made me miserable. Yeah. Like, I couldn’t get on an airplane without just being pissed off.

Like, why the fuck? Am I… Do I have to spend eight hours going through this shit when we have these technologies? And it’s like I was just living in such resistance. Mm. Yeah. You know? And I’m sorry to anyone out there who found themselves in the same situation because you watched one of my movies. I take it back.

Um, and it’s not that this stuff isn’t true or that it’s not important. Yeah. It’s super important. It’s 100% true. But the most important thing is that we regulate our, like, our reaction to it- Yeah … and our relationship with this information, and not go into the polarity. You know, she- Danny Sheehan was saying to me for years, he’s like, “You know, Mikey, we can’t be in a dialectic with the people who are keeping this stuff a secret.”

Yeah. You know, we have to transcend that, and I’m [00:44:00] like, “I understand the words you’re saying, but I have no exper- I, I don’t, I don’t know what that feels like.” Yeah. Like, I can’t relate to that at all. And it wasn’t until years later that I started actually having direct experiences that I’m like, “Oh, this is what he was talking about.

We all need to just chill the fuck out.” Mm. Direct experiences such as? Uh, like these spiritual, these spiritual- Yeah … experiences. Yeah. And, and, and experiencing these other realms of consciousness. Yeah. Totally. I would call it God. Yeah. But it, it’s always felt impersonal to me. Mm-hmm. You know? Yeah. So at least so far.

Yeah, I get that. So what is the controlled disclosure plan, high level? Yeah, so it’s, um, uh, we, we don’t know what these things are. Okay. You know, but they’re swarming our airships. They’re, they’re swarming our mil- our military. [00:45:00] They’re, they’re in our… They’re violating our airspace. Mm. And so, you know, we’re really concerned and, um, you know, we, we need to weaponize space.

And, and don’t worry, Christina, because we’re gonna give $100 trillion to Raytheon and Boeing and these other companies, and they’re gonna protect us- Yeah … from whatever this is. We just… You know. So that’s the controlled disclosure. The real disclosure is we… Nobody in power actually believes that these civilizations are a threat.

Now, I’m not saying that every civilization out there- Mm-hmm … is completely perfect and whatever. Mm-hmm. I think there’s good and bad in everything, just like… It’d be like asking are humans good or bad? Yeah. And it’s like, well… So but nobody in power actually believes that these civilizations pose an existential threat to us.

Mm-hmm. If they wanted to, they could have annihilated us in a nanosecond- Yeah … and they haven’t. Yeah. Um, they shut down our nukes. So of course, the [00:46:00] controlled disclosure presents that as, “Oh my God, they’re, they’re, they’re, they’re, you know, they’re dismantling our ability to defend ourselves,” when in fact, what thousands and thousands of contactees all over the world- Yeah

have experienced is direct messages from these beings saying, “Please stop fucking around with nuclear weapons- Yeah … because you’re a threat to this beautiful planet- Yeah … this rare planet that actually gestates life. Mm-hmm. And you’re a threat to other life forms throughout the universe because these weapons have a ripple effect.”

Yeah. Um, so that… So it’s all about not admitting- Mm-hmm … that it’s… No one really thinks it’s a threat, but also especially not admitting that most of the stuff that people see in the sky is our stuff- Yeah … that we have reverse engineered a long time ago. And the best person to look at for this is Michael Schratt.

Mm. Michael Schratt is a freaking genius, and he has laid out so perfectly the development of these technologies, and he can prove that these are, are man-made. Mm-hmm. I’m [00:47:00] curious because, look, people listening are gonna be at all different stages of awareness of all this. Yeah. And I often get overwhelmed when…

If I ever bump into somebody, they’re like, “Never heard of any of this before.” And I’m like, “There’s so much evidence.” Like, I’ve just collected and- … like, you know, learned about things over so many years from so many different sources. And when people are just wanting to dive into it and learn- Mm-hmm … about all of this, like, okay, they could go to your films, right?

Yeah. Streaming now on Spark. On Spark. Yeah. Is there… Like- But is there anywhere else you would say, like, start here and then let your rabbit hole expand out? Yeah. So- Because it can be overwhelming. So if you literally are at, “I didn’t even know UFOs were real”- Mm … I would start… You know, Unacknowledged is kind of out of date, because when I made that movie, it was t- it was 10 years ago, and the most provocative clips I could find of politicians talking about this was, like, Hillary Clinton on Jimmy Kimmel-[00:48:00]

being like, “Oh, I can’t say anything about that.” Yeah. And we were like, “Whoa.” And now we have congressional hearings. Yeah. So I would say, um, I would look at James Fox’s, um, most recent film, The Program- Mm-hmm … probably. Okay. Um, and or The Phenomenon. Yeah. Those are way more up to date, uh, if you’re just at, like, “I didn’t even know these were real.”

Once you’re past that, I would go to Close Encounters of the Fifth Kind- Mm-hmm … um, because that’s gonna talk about the science of consciousness, and that we can actually, uh, initiate, um, communication with these civilizations. And it’s very important that we do so- Yeah … because, um, you know, Greer has always kinda talked about this as a, as an ambassador program, and it, and it really is.

It’s like they need to know that not everyone on this planet is an aggressive asshole trying to shoot them down. Yeah. You know, they’re, they’re very interested in the development of our consciousness on this planet. So that film [00:49:00] teaches, um, the CE5 protocols, which is basically just putting out an intention- Mm-hmm

that is coherent enough for these civilizations to pick up on. You know, we mentioned earlier my favorite book, Autobiography of a Yogi. If you look at, if you look at, like, all these, um, you know, Vedic texts and, uh, these accounts of these gurus in India and these, uh, truly enlightened yoga masters, they talk about the abilities that you manifest as you purify yourself spiritually.

Mm-hmm. Um, and it’s the same thing with the Catholic saints. You know, how do you know someone is a, is a saint? Well, they have these magical abilities like levitation and teleportation and dematerialization and bilocation, which is when you’re in two locations at once, and telepathy and healing. Well, what are UFOs doing?

They’re levitating and teleporting- Yeah … and healing people. Yeah. And, and so these are civilizations that have had millions of years beyond us- Mm-hmm … to evolve. [00:50:00] And so everyone born on these planets already has these abilities, and these abilities are now manifesting through their technology. Mm-hmm. So, you know, when these crash retrieval guys would go out, they’d shoot one of these things out of the sky, and they’d bring it back, and they look at the metal under a microscope.

Mm-hmm. It’s so pure, the atoms are so pure- Mm … that we could not replicate it even in a vacuum in space, and that’s because these aren’t being assembled on, like, a Ford assembly line- Yeah … the way you would make a Bronco. Yeah. They’re literally being materialized and manifested out of these, like, quantum substrate of reality through the consciousness- Mm-hmm

of these extremely, uh, uh, uh, ascended beings. Yeah. It’s like an apport but for an entire UFO. Mm-hmm. And so the atoms are so pure because they’re literally coming into existence- Yeah … the moment that they step into our dimension. And that’s, that’s also why they’re seamless. So when people see these things, [00:51:00] and they’ve got pipes and rivets and all this shit, that’s a fucking man-made one.

Like, that’s not, you know, like, that’s not theirs. I know. I know. You know? I think one of the most… Like, this is just my personal opinion because, like, I think one of the most helpful things to do if you’re into this stuff is, like, learn about all of the other tech, you know? And the- these other beings, they’re trying to tell us about their technology and how they do things.

Like, they’re trying to find a lot of scientists, especially who they could communicate ideas to help us upgrade. Like, they are really trying to be supportive, you know? Yeah. And, um, I know for me, just learning about all of the different technology actually made me feel so much more at peace about, like, living on Earth because before I knew that, I was like, I had so much fear, you know?

Yeah. And then you kind of realize everything that’s out there, and you’re like, “We’re dealing with these clunky,” like… At least, like, I look at my iPhone, and I’m like- … “I don’t need this.” You know what I mean? Like- Yeah … it’s so clunky. Um, but- Yeah, I f- I feel like learning about that [00:52:00] technology breaks people’s minds open to what’s possible, and then that starts to allow them to see a lot of other possibilities just in their own lives, you know?

Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Um, the, the trick, if I could go back in time- Yeah … and tell myself 10 years ago, is like, is to not fall into despair of, “Oh my God, they’ve kept this from us.” Yeah. You know? Yeah. ‘Cause I did that for so long. People get suicidal over it. Yeah. I wasn’t at that point. Yeah. But I lived in such resistance and- Yeah

anger, and um, it wasn’t until many years later that I just let go and started living my life. Mm. And I’m like, “Oh, now I’m happy.” Yeah. I don’t let this stuff- I mean- … eat away at me anymore. Like, can you t- share more about like why it made you so angry? Yeah. Because, um, I was- I was doing… I fell into the classic spiritual awakening [00:53:00] trap where I’m like, you know, everything is just about spirituality and consciousness, and I’m gonna deny the physical.

Mm-hmm. And I’m gonna deny my physical needs, and I’m not gonna worry about money. I’m not gonna worry about success. That’s not spiritual. And so my life looked like shit, you know? Mm-hmm. And even when my films were making tons of money, like, it wasn’t getting back to me. I wasn’t, I wasn’t making good deals.

I wasn’t enforcing the good deals that I did have, and it’s because it wasn’t something I was prioritizing. So my life looked like shit, and I was, um, basically spiritually bypassing my entire life. Mm. And just trying to focus on, oh, no, it’s, it’s all about just ascension, about consciousness and whatever, even though I just had opinions about these things.

Mm-hmm. And so then I wanted someone to blame for why my life looked like shit. And so, well, of course, it’s all of these evil, [00:54:00] you know, people in the military industrial complex who have stolen this destiny from us. We’re supposed to all be living like immortal billionaires, and we’re not. So I had so much anger and resentment, and, um, and I used, like, all of this stuff as, like, a distraction and excuse to not work on my own dreams.

I was like, “Well, my dream of being a famous filmmaker and creating art, you know, that’s not really important.” Mm-hmm. You know? What’s important is the UFO cover-up and humanity waking up and all of this stuff, but that was all just my own ego and bullshit. Mm. You know? Um, there’s this, this kind of, like, trendy thing I’m seeing on Instagram where it’s like the final stage of spirituality is returning and embracing the physical, and I’m like, that’s actually fucking true.

Mm-hmm. You know? And actually learning to embody a, you know, uh, th- you know, this [00:55:00] human form and live a happy, fulfilled life. Like, it actually is about the basics. Yeah. It is about fulfilling your dreams- Mm-hmm … creating your art, raising your family, finding love, getting rich. Like, it actually is about that.

Yeah. And I think it’s a big trap for people to say, “Oh, no, that’s all just bullshit and it’s not important.” So I wasted a lot of time- Mm … thinking that my own dreams were not important, and please learn from my mistakes. Yeah. I mean, I, I wanna spend a little time here because, you know, this is the thing we talked about last time, and I’m like, I wanna have you on the show to talk about your journey with that because it is such a big, um, trap people fall into in the, in the spiritual space.

So what, what made you s- see the material realm differently? It’s so embarrassing. So, um- You know, as a, as a professional conspiracy theorist- Yeah … I sometimes get things wrong. Yeah. I will admit. As we do. So [00:56:00] by the end of 2021, I had, I had almost died from COVID, all my hair fell out. Oh my God. And, uh, it was…

I got… It was so bad, and I was just so traumatized, not just from that but just watching what we all collectively… Like, I don’t have to tell your audience- Yeah … what we all fucking went through. Yeah. You know? It’s like you’re either gonna, “You’re gonna die from the virus. No, you’re gonna die from the vaccine,” and just it was the most divided we’ve ever been.

Mm-hmm. And it was just awful. The grid was gonna go down, we’re gonna have no food, like- And so that’s where I was. Yeah. I became absolutely convinced, this is so embarrassing, that the food s- It’s not. It’s not … the food supply was gonna collapse. Yeah. So I started stockpiling food. I started stockpiling food for my friends and my family, who thought I was crazy.

Mm-hmm. I was spending thou- tens of thousands of dollars on guns- Mm-hmm … supplies. I went full prepper in West Hollywood- Yeah … which is weird, right? Yeah. You know? And I’m, like, taking, like, like, thousands of dollars worth of supplies to my mom’s [00:57:00] garage, and I’m like, “You, you’re gonna need this.” And she’s like, “I don’t…

Get this shit out of here. What is it?” You know? Mm-hmm. And so I basically stared into the abyss, and I accepted that everyone I cared about was gonna die. Mm-hmm. And that even if my little feeble attempt at stockpiling kept us alive, it wasn’t a world that we would even be happy to live in. Yeah. And I actually accepted that this was going to happen.

Mm. And then I said, “Well, since we’re fucked, I’m gonna go do the things I’ve always wanted to do ’cause I’m out of time.” So I signed up for acting classes. I signed up for tennis lessons. I started… You know, there was, like, this list of things. Yeah. And so for the first time, I stopped living in resistance to everything and being bitter about the way the world was, and I just started actually enjoying my life.

Mm-hmm. And it was the first time in my adult life that I had s- like, got off my fucking soapbox with my [00:58:00] mission and my activism, and I actually did something for me selfishly, and it just was like… It wa- it was h- I didn’t know what that felt like- Yeah … until I did it, and I was like, “Oh, I can create art just for the sake of creating art, and it doesn’t have to be in service of some fucking cosmic battle between good and evil that I think I’m fighting.”

Yeah. You know? Um, yeah, it’s just… So that’s kind of where I- Yeah … that’s where it started to shift. Yeah. And I was like You know, I’ve had it so wrong, and it’s not, it’s not like, oh, I’m gonna just be selfish now. It’s like actually realizing that what I was doing before was so selfish, and it was all ego, and it was all resistance, and it was all projection, and it was me projecting everything that was unhealed within myself onto the world, and then getting pissed [00:59:00] off about it And, um, yeah.

I mean, I, I really appreciate you sharing that because I, I think it’s- Yeah … really important to recognize where there is a lot of… It’s a lot of the, the activism that I’m like, “What is that really?” You know, we have to, we have to look at that. And I feel really strongly about, about letting people know that, like, being spiritual doesn’t…

Like, being in this human experience is just, like, a spiritual experience. Like, going out to food with friends, having a conversation- Yeah … following your dre- creating things. Like- Yeah … making art, making… Like, you know what I mean? Like, being in this human experience, and I think a lot of people want to deny joy.

That’s right. And they call it spiritual, but I’m like, “That’s not. We’re here, we’re here to experience joy.” Yeah, and it’s not just with, like, spiritual stuff. Yeah. It’s all kinds of activism. Yeah. It’s like, I s- I now- For sure … see it everywhere. Yeah. I’m like, “Oh, [01:00:00] you’re s- like, all these people,” and it’s like you’re so miserable.

Mm-hmm. And, and you’re just holding all of this tension and resistance in your body, and you’re- Yeah … so angry. Yeah. And you think that that anger is going to accomplish something. Mm-hmm. Doesn’t… It doesn’t mean anything. Um, you know, like, every great example of anytime change has happened, you know- Mm-hmm

has been through l- expressions of love and compassion. Yeah. Hasn’t been through anger and rage. Um, but i- it’s, it’s like we’re all… So I mean, w- I was hearing for years and years every- “Oh, humanity’s awakening. It’s awa- we’re, we’re gonna wake up,” and I’m like, “Nah.” It’s actually happening. Yeah. Like, we didn’t need to force it.

Yeah. We didn’t need to go out there and convince anybody. Mm-hmm. Like, it’s literally just organically happening. Yeah. So I don’t have to fucking do anything to wake anybody else up. Yeah. It’s h- it’s all fractal and holographic anyway. Mm-hmm. So I’m just now gonna create the best life I [01:01:00] can for me and my family- Yeah

and the people I work with, and the people that I love, and I’m gonna have fun and express myself at the, with the highest amount of integrity that I can. And if I hold that vibration in the world, that’s gonna be my contribution. Mm-hmm. Uh, and I think people are awakening, to your point, organically, and, like, in a lot of ways that people weren’t expecting ’cause people were like, “I have to tell everybody, and it’s gonna wake them up,” when most of the awakening happened just through your own personal life, like realizations.

Yeah. You know? Um, I, I go to this conference every year where it just… A ton of people who come together from all over the world, and you get in these little groups, and everybody gets to, like, bring a question that you’re just genuinely curious about, and people kinda mastermind on it. And my question was- Um, you know, in your life, think of times when your paradigm has fundamentally changed and what actually changed your mind.

Mm-hmm. ‘Cause I’m, like, genuinely curious about what changed your mind, ’cause when I think about it, I’m like, the things that actually, like, woke me up to any realization about my [01:02:00] paradigms or different beliefs, it’s always just been experiential. It’s, like, through a relationship I had or through an experience with money.

It’s, like, real life. It wasn’t something I saw that was, like, this truth about the world externally that actually changed how I saw things, you know? And I actually think our relationship with money is such a powerful paths of consciousness, you know? And I, I, ’cause I train other healers, and so that overlaps with business, and I have this conversation a lot because people have a lot of resistance around charging.

Yeah. Right? Because the, there’s so much projection on money, and you know, one of the things that I talk about a lot is I’m like, “What is the long game here?” You know? Because I’m like, I’ll, I’ll take… I’ll use myself as an example. Like, I have offerings that people think are too expensive, whatever, right?

Mm-hmm. But that’s just your own relationship with money. And I’m like, “But what do you think allows me to pay for the thousands and thousands of hours of [01:03:00] free content that I spend 98% of my time doing,” right? Because I, I wanna share, right? And so I think a lot of people get kind of caught up in the, this like, it’s like this activism energy for the now, and I’m like, “But what’s actually a-” I’m like, I, I do my best to contribute as much as I can, you know, to sharing with people and getting free information out there, and if that’s my long game, then I have to think about what’s gonna actually allow for me to do that, you know?

So I think there’s, like, also another level of maturity with, um, how we approach service. I completely agree. And, like, money is the energy of the planet. It has to be a fair exchange- Yeah … especially if you’re a healer. Yeah. If there isn’t that fair exchange, it’s, the, you’re… And again, I don’t wanna speak for other people’s experience- Yeah

but, um, you can take on the karma of- Mm-hmm … the people that you’re working with. 100%. Um, you can take on some of these energies. Like, there’s gotta be a fair exchange. Yeah. [01:04:00] And so something I’ve done a lot of work around is de-stigmatizing money. Yeah. Because, you know, if you don’t have any money, it’s because you’ve got a really bad attitude towards it.

Mm-hmm. And I certainly had that, and I come from a family- Mm … with horrible attitudes towards money that I’ve had to heal. Yeah. And I think that’s why, like, I love talking about this because I love all the, the cool, the UFO, the ET, all that, right? That’s cool, but I think that’s a really easy path for people to get locked in without, I’m like, “But what is your relationship with money?

What is your relationship with relationships?” Like, there’s a lot of people in the conspiracy theory world who, like, are chronically single. They can’t a- actually have good connections, are struggling financially, and I’m like, “Well, we’ve gotta look at that, too,” right? These are the most- … miserable, fucked-up people I’ve- Yeah

ever encountered, and I used to be one of them. Yeah. And I’m, I’m not saying that I’m perfect and healed. Yeah. I’m saying it is a massive difference- Mm-hmm … to where I was a few years ago and, and where I am now. Yeah. Um, [01:05:00] and, and it’s just, I see now the, it, it’s this, it’s very, um… I’ll put it this way. It’s like, don’t take spiritual advice from people who aren’t- living the life that you would want.

Like, there are so many, um, healers and spiritual teachers out there who are extremely miserable- Yeah … angry, neurotic- Mm … and sad, and I wish them love and- Yeah … healing. But it’s like, I’m not going to take advice from those people. Mm-hmm. I’m gonna take advice from people whose lives are filled- Mm … with joy.

Yeah. People who are so happy and laughing and smiling all the time- Yeah … ’cause that’s what… I want more of that. Totally. You know? And that’s true everywhere, right? Like, you’re not gonna take financial advice from someone who’s poor. From broke people. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. You know? So I think- … it’s really important for people to remember that or, like, you’re not gonna hire a life coach who doesn’t have a good life.

I m- it seems so obvious. Yeah. But then also look at the playing field. I know. It’s not that obvious. [01:06:00] I know. I know. Yeah. It’s wild. I’m curious ’cause, I mean, what a journey, like, you’ve been on. And your career, it’s like you’re very publicly sharing these very different ideas. Um, were the people in your life supportive?

What was that- Uh … what was that like? Uh, for the most part. You know, when I was making Unacknowledged, my mom would say to me e- every… She was very supportive. Mm-hmm. Like, every… You know, my parents were very supportive of this. But my mom would say, “You, you really believe in this UFO stuff?” And I’m like, “Yes, and here’s why- Yeah.

and here’s all the evidence.” And she’d say, “Oh, okay, okay.” And we had that conversation- Yeah … like maybe 20 times. And then after the film came out, she was like, “Well, you know, I, you know, I left your dad, um, and I moved into this apartment in Hollywood and, uh, and then these aliens showed up- … in my bathroom every night, uh, and were, like, beckoning me to walk into this blinding white light.

And I was so terrified, and I, I thought I was gonna die. So after this [01:07:00] happened every night for two weeks, I went back to your dad.” And so I was conceived after that. So I’m like, “Oh, so I wouldn’t exist if you weren’t having- uh, alien visitations Yeah And she’s like, “Yeah, pretty much.” And I’m like, I’m like, “Why didn’t you tell me this?”

And she’s like, “Well, I’ve been trying to convince myself that it was just a dream.” I’m like, “Well, was it a dream?” She’s like, “Absolutely not.” So- I- … there’s some cognitive dissonance. Yeah You know? And you know what? I want… Uh, I talk about this a lot because I tell people, I’m like, “I’ve never met someone who wasn’t hardcore, like, ‘I’m not…

I don’t believe in this. I’m not spiritual,’ or I talk to them and they, like, literally had an experience. They’re just running from it.” You know? Like, people, a lot of people have had these experiences. Yeah. They just wanna pretend it’s a dream, or they, like, literally repress it and then it comes back or whatever it is.

Yeah. Yeah. I’m… A- apparently, I’ve been told- Uh-huh … that I’m, uh, so far I’ve been kind of, like, not allowed to remember my [01:08:00] ET experiences. Mm. Um- So you don’t remember any- I don’t remember any, but I’m kn- I’m sure that I’ve had a lot of them. Yeah. But I don’t remember any of them. And I- Do you want to? Yeah, I’d love to.

Yeah. But yeah, I, I feel like it’ll happen when I’m, I’m supposed to remember it, you know? Do, do you feel like not remembering them, um, was beneficial for you in making the films you’ve made or doing your work? It’s funny, um, I always was, like, pissed off and like, “I, why, why don’t the aliens care about me?

I’m doing all this advocacy and whatever.” But, um, one of my best friends, Cody Blue Snider, he said, “No, Michael, you had to, you had to chart a, a path- Mm-hmm … for people that was based on logic and evidence.” And I said, “Let’s go with that. I like, I like that explanation.” Mm. So… Yeah. I, I think- It’s all worked out perfectly.

Yeah, I’m fine. I’m fine with it. As, as it needs to. Yeah. But I mean, it must feel really cool [01:09:00] to know that your work has opened up real authentic experiences for so many people, you know? Because I, I know it has. People watch your films, and they have an experience in real life. I’m glad. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I think that- I hope it was a good experience

I think it’s amazing. Yeah. Yeah. Well, that’s how I met Serena. I know. That’s why I’m like, “That’s so cool.” Yeah. It’s- It’s crazy. So share more about what you guys are doing with SPARK. Cool. So, um, I, I met Serena DC, um, in 2021. She had watched Close Encounters of the Fifth Kind during the lockdown, and then had a major sighting that night- Mm-hmm

that changed her life. So, um, so we started making films together. She’s an Emmy-nominated film director. She’s amazing. And, um, we decided that we wanted, w- along with Jack Osborne, we are like, “It’s time for this stuff to be [01:10:00] treated like it’s mainstream,” because it is. Mm-hmm. Yeah. You know? It’s not reflected in our media, ’cause Hollywood’s the last one to figure it out.

Mm. You know? Um, but you talk to anybody on the street, everybody’s into this stuff. Yeah. Everyone’s into personal transformation. Everyone believes in UFOs. Like, you know, uh, the awakening is happening. So we, uh, we created Spark and w- it’s like our vision for it is like if MTV was into personal transformation- Mm-hmm

and UFOs and paranormal. So we like to bring in as much celebrity culture and pop culture as we can, and, you know, the key thing for us is just making sure the people that we’re f- um, like making shows with and films with are, are relatable- Yeah … and cool. You know, we wanna show people, like, you can be a mom and a dad or you can be a professional, you can have a career, you can love all the girly stuff or you can be into sports or whatever, and you can incorporate this stuff into your life ’cause it’s fucking normal and it’s time to integrate it.

Mm-hmm. And so, um, [01:11:00] that’s wha- that’s what we’re doing. Mm. And we’ve got, um, like 2,000 hours of content. Mm-hmm. I’ve got another, like, 300 episodes of stuff that’s about to go up in the next- Wow … few weeks that we’ve been doing. We have amazing… We, we’ve, we did a show with Human Garage called Humanish that’s about to come out.

We’ve got some really great stuff in the works. Yeah. You guys are working on so much cool stuff. Thank you. Um, so people can download the app, just watch directly there, right? Yeah. You can go to the website- Uh-huh … uh, sparktv.ai. You can download the mobile apps. Mm-hmm. We have the TV apps on Apple TV, Amazon Fire, Roku- Yeah

all the Samsung, wherever. Yeah. And, uh, yeah. I think it’s, it’s amazing, and I’m curious, like, the experience of building this. Oh my God. I mean, so, like, when I met Serena, she was like, “I wanna make films with you. I’m gonna make 10 films in one year.” Mm-hmm. I’m like, “Why don’t you make one film in one year?”

Yeah. “It’s, like, really fucking hard.” [01:12:00] And so she, she goes and makes 10 films in one year. She gets nominated for an Emmy for the first film she ever made, w- My Transparent Life, and I’m like, “How the fu-” “Why are you doing this?” And she’s like, “What? Like it’s hard?” You know, like- Yeah … like Elle in, um- Yeah

Legally Blonde. And so we start working together, and then she’s like, “Michael, we should start our own network.” And my instinct is to be like, “You crazy.” Mm. She’s like, “Oh, no, no. I, I fi- have it all figured out. It’s gonna be super easy.” So she lays out the plan, and I’m like, “Oh, yeah, we can do that. That sounds easy.”

Well, it was the hardest thing ever, and it’s aged me 50 years, but here we are. I’m glad we did it. I know it’s hard, but it is… There is an ease to the path. Like, it’s hard work, but there, the, it’s aligned. It’s, uh- You know? It’s super, it’s super aligned. A- and this is the first, really the first time in my life where I don’t feel like I’m pushing a boulder uphill while the boulder is stabbing me in the face.

Yeah. Like, all those movies we made, I’m glad we made them- Mm-hmm … but it was all just, like, like a war to get them made. [01:13:00] Yeah. And with Spark, for the most part, it’s just felt like all the right people are coming in at the right time. Everything’s easy. Yeah. I pitch people. They’re like, “Yeah, let’s do it.

Yeah.” Just like, wow. Um- Yeah … something’s different, you know? So I think that this i- we are being, we are being guided and, you know, I have this, I have this connection with, with Babaji- Mm … who is the, um, you know, the, the ascended master- Mm-hmm … from Autobiography of a Yogi. He’s the one who… He’s the originator of Kriya Yoga, and one of our investors, um, pulled a tarot card to see who was guiding Spark, and it was Babaji.

I’m like, “Ah.” Of course it was. Yeah. So we got, we, we, we got some good juju behind us. I love that. With, with that, with this kind of perspective and experience and POV, like, what would you tell younger you?

Uh, well, I mean, the [01:14:00] first thing I would say is, um, “You’re gay, and it’s normal, and get over it, and it’s okay.” Yeah. ‘Cause I didn’t even know what it was. Wow. And that, that, all that stuff just fucked me up so much. Yeah. Um, and then you’re an empath. Mm-hmm. And you’re not insane. Yeah. You know? Uh, so that’s number two.

Um, and that, um Y- the, the purpose of life is to, um, is to create, it’s to create more life, it’s to create joy, it’s to create love, and it’s to fulfill your potential by following your passions. Mm. And that’s what you’re supposed to be doing, and that’s how you orient yourself towards the highest good.

It’s not by focusing on, uh, tragedy and mis- a- and like, [01:15:00] um, and like m- misfortune- Yeah … and injustice in the world, um, and coming from a place of, of, of pain and resistance. Mm. But easier said than done. Yeah. You know? True. So lots of, lots of love and patience and compassion and space for the people who are, um, still in the throes of that.

No judgment from me- Yeah … you know? Like- Hey, we all gotta- No one, no one wasted more time than me. Yeah. Uh, you know? So… I mean, we’re all, we all gotta walk the path, you know? Yeah. I think obviously it’s like there’s things, wisdom we share with each other and perspective, but life teaches you, you know? Yeah.

I think that’s really the most valuable thing. Yeah. So I appreciate you sharing everything so vulnerably. Like, I love that about you, like how you’re just so authentic and vulnerable and willing to share this, and I was really excited to have you on. I, I’m so honored to be here. I don’t get invited on a lot of podcasts, and- You’re amazing

uh, well, thank you. On podcasts, yeah And like, and thank you for [01:16:00] everything that you are doing. You are an example. Like, you are, you are like an amazing example of what it means to, uh, lead, um, from a place of integrity. Mm. And you are… Like, you’re exactly the kind of, um, thought leader that we want to like get behind with Spark.

Like, we love what you’re doing- Thank you … and admire it so much. So thank you for putting good vibes out into the world. Oh my gosh, I appreciate it so much. Yeah, I feel like it was, it was divinely led that we connected, and like you guys are such a breath of fresh air because you’re so like genuine. I’ve been, you know, telling people, I’m like, “They’re just like really, their heart’s in the right place,” like just authentic, real people, and I really like believe in your mission, and it’s just, it’s…

I, yeah, I really am happy that we connected. Thank you, likewise. Yeah, yeah. Thank you so much. Oh my God, thank you. This is amazing. [01:17:00] Fabulous.